(UPDATED) In moments of doubt, I am often torn between two gut instincts:

and the gung-ho guns-blazing

not to mention a deep desire to be

OK, let’s be realistic, more like this:

I tend to go with

Re: two skincare board discussions/disputes:

+ Re: memo to self re: my own policies:
(1) maintenance of civility and decorum
(2) and of open channels of communication
(3) distinguishing between trolling, folly, silliness, and hybrid forms thereof
(4) strategy/battle tactics/longer-term warfare: disarm (removing ammunition), deflect, deter, defuse
(5) distinguishing–and attempting to encourage others to do likewise–between open, normal, rational discussion of products and personal attacks. Inc. attacks–real or perceived–on beliefs, values, and extensions to culture, race, other differentiating-factors.
(6) despising teenage girls (urgh: worst time of my life), their tactics, mean girl ridiculousness, ganging-up, side-taking, faction-building, and personal vendettas.
(7) a refusal to be drawn into individual-to-individual fights (and indeed plain smaller-scale squabbles).

From Saint Sabina
Subject Skin board
Date 11/2/2011 7:13:33 PM

You think skin care board has too much baggage don;t you think?

I don’t get the drama. Just flag the troll, laugh off and move on. What’s so difficult about that?

Why are jetfan, icaria and mej always making it bigger than it has to be? Or am I talking out of my arse? Sigh…


From gingerrama
Subject RE: Skin board
Date 11/2/2011 8:16:28 PM

Quite so.
I think they’re taking revenge for bashing on the BB board. Heck, I get bashed there too, as do you–that’s no excuse.

I say indicate it’s a troll, flag, move on. Don’t feed. Even if it’s amusing. Worse still, if the individual real human being behind the troll is half as sick / disturbed as I think she is: it’s kind of cruel to tease and attack him/her (even if, yes, it’s still a troll).

On a more interesting topic: How are your skin adventures going? CDLM still being nice and stable for you? I had a recently experiment with something cheaper and fashionable, that seemed like it would be a great idea–CeraVe cream–but it wasn’t altogether successful… and I’m back to one of my old faithfuls that always always works, but is pricey: Dr.Hauschka rose day cream light. OK, you still win by price–by a long way!–but I totally agree on sticking with things that are tried and trusted; I’ve got other things to do besides play experimenting with how to get a cream to work… when there’s one sitting there that i just have to slap on, and then get on with the rest of my life…

Ginger xox

Self-crit comments:

  • 1st paragraph: agreement where I happen to agree–avoiding taking sides (and indeed naming individuals here) by going instead into possible explanations, intentions, reason why the trolling rankled particularly bitterly and caused what might otherwise seem like a disproportionate reaction.
  • 2nd paragraph: move from the particular to the general, and suggestions for abstracted theoretical general policy, for future instances of same/similar.
  • 3rd: move on to another topic, a topic of conversation that’s constructive (vs. destructive), forward-looking (vs. backwards, the past, which is as it is and can’t be changed)

From Saint Sabina
Subject RE: RE: Skin board
Date 11/2/2011 9:00:59 PM

I get bashed on BB board? OMG I feel so special. I have finally made it into skinboard royalty. Ha ha!

Anyway… my skincare adventures are now focused on supplementation. Jefan posted something about a connection between iodine deficiency and cystic acne a few months ago and I came across this —

and also this

MY TSH levels have been on a steady rise since 2006. And even though they are in range I am having issues with tiredness, lumpy breast (had that for a while) and most importantly not sweating. I was asked after a Bikram Yoga class in the change room if I just came in for the next session!!! They were stunned to see me not dripping with sweat like others. I knew something wasn’t right then and there.

So I am doing the protocol by Dr. Brownstein and I am seeing some improvements — I am no longer constipated (sorry TMI) I no longer have to wear thick socks to bed. My perpetually clogged pores are becoming harder to spot. Not gone yet. Last two days I have not slathered oil or lotion on my body after shower — this hasn’t happened since childhood I think. I skip my legs/arms in summer sometimes but I can never skip my back.

I know the conventional wisdom is iodine supplement is not needed but conventional wisdom has failed me so far….so I am willing to take some risks here. I do intend to bring my dr up to speed buy not yet. Luckily she’s open-minded so won’t scold me.

That stupid CDLM. I hope to dump it some day especially if my skin normalizes with iodine.

Just as an fyi AACE has changed the TSH level normal range in 2003. It’s now 0.03 to 3.0 but most US labs still use the .5 to 5.0 scale so most results don’t get flagged for being out of range. Mine were 2.4 and DH’s are 2.8. His are a little too close to comfort for me.

Anyway…I am just blathering here. LOL

I will update the board if I see a difference. I took pictures today of scary MU free skin! So I can see progress or no progress.



Comments: very interesting and constructive indeed. As I’ve suggested subsequently, well worth sharing with others. And I mean that entirely constructively and philanthropically: my skin is completely different, none of the above is relevant to it. But I’d be surprised if there weren’t other people out there who couldn’t benefit from the above.

From gingerrama
Subject iodine experiment
Date 11/15/2011 1:05:57 AM

Hi Sabina,

I think you should totally post this up on the skincare board: not my own thing–my own skin issues are different–but I thought the information was handy, your own procedure and description great, and the whole “adventure” seriously worth sharing: I’m sure it could be useful (maybe even skin-/life-changing) for MUAers.

I’ve also responded to your last comment on that CDLM vs. ShiKai eye cream post. I totally agreed with your last post: I have no idea which of the two creams is better, and my mind’s staying made up (or un-made-up) that way unless I either try both (which is unlikely) or receive information from a reliable source, who’s tested both of them out (properly, to my satisfaction).

Right now, I do not *know* which is better. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.

And it would be dishonest to guess, let alone assume/presume, that either one will be better than the other (OK, unless there’s specific ingredients that I know trigger reactions etc.). It would be senseless to assume the pricier one is better, just because it’s pricier. Equally, it would be senseless to assume the cheaper one is better, because it’s cheaper. (I’m going to add that bit to that reply…)

“Courage”, as they say here 🙂

Ginger xox

From Saint Sabina
Subject RE: iodine experiment
Date 11/15/2011 8:49:47 PM

You know I really want to hate you many many times but I can’t! You know that right? LOL

La Mer’s cream has over 50 ingreidents. I am not kidding. So someone with fussy skin (90% of the skin board) should stay away from it. I would totally want to try ShiKai. I’d love to support smaller companies who put more thought into their ingredients and actually are proud of a product they sell.

Unfortunately I am stuck in a this tunnel vision of ridding myself of acne for the past 3 years that I have closed myself up from trying any new moisturizer or anything. I. JUST. WANT. TO. BE. ACNE-FREE. I have just had it. Now to be honest I did order and love Topix Green Tea serum but that was purchased more as a sun-protection on no ss days.

Anyway. I have been busy all day and just got on MUA for the first time today so apologize about the delayed response. I am going to wait to post my iodine findings for a week because I don’t have much time during the day.

I don’t get the others though. They jumped all over me because they thought I was trashing ShiKai then I make a decent case and all I hear is crickets…. You were gracious enough to chime in. God forbid if they admit that I might have had a valid point all along….that might hurt their ego? Sigh…


From gingerrama
Subject RE: RE: iodine experiment
Date 11/15/2011 9:10:45 PM

1. Aw, that’s very sweet of you.

2. But–don’t worry. I’m good friends with The Others. They’re good people. They mean well. I don’t agree with them on everything; I don’t agree with everyone on everything either. I’m cool with that.

3. Jetfan, JoshuaP, Icaria, and co. Yes, their first response was to think you were trashing *because* this was something that was anti-Crème de la Mer.

Now: to be fair to them: I can see how what you said could come across as having responded most immediately to the CDLM issue.

On the other hand: if I were paranoid, I might have imagined that posting that pseudo-“article” in the first place was waving a red flag to a bull: an incitement intended to provoke anyone who liked CDLM. If I liked CDLM and I were paranoid, or at least suspected conspiracy, I’d reckon that was deliberate provocation, and a personal attack.

But: from what I know of Jetfan and co (and I’ve known her, on MUA, for some years now): that’s not what she’s about. Like me, and plenty others on the SCB, she’s about ethics, education, myth-busting, and helping people. The main purpose of a post like that is to point out that there are cheaper alternatives (even if they’re not proper actual “dupes.”) To help people: to help them help themselves, not spend money they could otherwise save–especially in the current economy–to help them empower themselves as questioning consumers, not to fall victim to ads, marketing, fashion; to be able to say no, to be able to call BS when they see it.

So bear that in mind the next time you see something about CDLM or expensive ingredients or creams, same on the makeup board, attacks on greenwashing and pulling wool over eyes and other attempts to abuse customers… that’s all they are. It’s about those products and the people who make them and *THEIR* folly. They’re the bad guys being called out (and, yes, some of us will call out people who might look like “good guys” but turn out to have vested interests… like Paula Begoun and the Environmental Working Group). That’s all!

Hope that helps…
Ginger x

Comments: OK, writing in haste: main points:

  • to emphasize that this isn’t about attacking a person, but a view expressed;
  • it’s about a certain product: not an insinuation, allusion, or other attached apparatus about someone who uses it or indeed all people who use it.
  • um, yes, true, I don’t know what these people were thinking. I respect them and from what I’ve seen they’re usually, you know, fair and reasonable and think things through and so on. Yes, it’s possible their mean bones were poking out. Or egos. But in the absence of any further evidence to the contrary, I’d rather attribute neutral or positive intentions. And (start of paragraph 3) go for the obvious interpretation: for the evidence for all which, see below.
  • also true: I bash hypocrisy and folly. Hence ye blogge here present. I’d never spend much money on a moisturiser: I find the idea unconscionable, reprehensible, morally repugnant. Also, I’d be mocked by my Dear Beloved. And if you thought that I was Mr Spock, let me tell you: DB is Mr Logic incarnate.
  • on the other hand: my skin may have had its downs and issues, but it’s never been so bad, and responding to so little, that I’ve encountered the problem of “spendy skin or skin death.” It’s always responded to cheap stuff: indeed, it thrives the better on cheap stuff. That’s lucky.
    It’s costs me eff all in doctors’ bills: because I’ve always been places where such things were covered. Even when in the US, this was covered by health insurance. Lucky again, and that’s saved me money too.
    But: if CDLM was the one thing that worked, and that cost me less that doctors’ appointments and prescriptions, that would be money saved and therefore might be the best choice. I’d like to think that I’d still try to find some Middle Way of Compromise: but I’ve not been in that situation, so there’s no way of telling.
  • Sabina is in a different situation, with different skin:

Unfortunately I am stuck in a this tunnel vision of ridding myself of acne for the past 3 years that I have closed myself up from trying any new moisturizer or anything. I. JUST. WANT. TO. BE. ACNE-FREE. I have just had it.

  • but then again: we’re not talking moisturiser here, to keep your skin stuck on your face and free of zits, irritation, infection, and assorted unhappiness
  • I remind you: we’re talking EYE CREAM.


Further comments: well, that’s it folks. Apart from that discussion in question: see screenshots below.

Self-critical comments:

Ah, the eternal struggle with one’s human side: to explain, not to explain, to be irrelevant, to be flippant, to over-explain. Where to Draw the Line? How Far should one Go? How Much can People Take? Quandaries indeed. Also: You Can’t Win, Whatever You Do.

don protective clothing and attempt not to panic / overheat

In case of panic: press the “play”/ “panic” button and dance.

Logical conclusion–albeit too late for that discussion thread:

Over and out…

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